Vehcile Tracking & cost per Mile Tax

[johnriley1uk]

What do they want? All of our money?

Yes. Then we can all apply to have some of it returned to us for spending money, subject to us proving reasonable need.

[Mike]

A government really wants us to stay in, do nothing, earn money, be clever, not hurt the environment, spend the money we have earned (but not apply for credit), have children and die. . . . .

[mr_e]

Dude, I'll be expecting flying trains available for use soon afterwards with the huge amount of revenue it'll generate.

Fears I have:
1) The setup costs will be absolutely stupidly huge, and the government will underestimate them initially, just to compound things.
2) Running it costs a huge amount of money, given the government tends to overpay for everything.
3) The wealthy will simply absorb these charges and not change their driving habits, whilst it hits the poorer (or even middle-income) people relatively hard.
4) The government intends to increase charges later on as deemed necessary, with no public consultation.
5) The revenue generated will not go directly to public transport or green energy schemes, but will go straight to the treasury and be used on other stuff.
6) It won't be seen through, as there will be too big a delay between the charges and people seeing a payoff in terms of improved public transport.

Positive things:
1) The government know if they screw this up it'll lose them the next election, so they will hopefully exercise caution.
2) We should see some great public transport as a result.
3) It will make a lot of people acutely aware of their driving habits, and possibly encourage more walking short distances et cetera.

[Andy]

Undoubtably there are positive things that I must admit I had not thought about but I still feel it is intrusive.

Here's another thought - taxi services.
Negative because - 1) the prices will rocket up, especially in the middle of manchester 2) the knockon effect it will have on the families of the drivers.

[johnriley1uk]

So if it costs Sue even ?5 to drive to the Trafford Centre, and presumably ?5 back, that's ?10 per day or ?50 per week to get to work. Why drive? because there are no buses back here after 5:30pm and there is no way she will be travelling alone on several buses across Manchester after 11pm. Midnight in Eccles? No way.

So at a little over ?200 a month, or maybe more, she won't earn enough to make going to work worthwhile, but it won't matter because no-one will want to go and shop there anyway. Places like the Trafford centre will go quickly downhill, although it might be interesting to walk around there when it's derelict.

Now it will cost me, with my 45,000 miles a year, a little bit more that ?200 a month, lets say ?1000 to be on the conservative side, and my company is not going to pay that as expenses. So I'll stay at home as well.

We will all be on the dole, but very healthy as we'll walk to the Post Office to collect the money every week. Oh, hang on, they don't do that any more so the Post Office has probably closed down. Another derelict building.

Ah well, I'll stay on the Internet and have things sent to my home by courier. Except that because of the high courier charges (they have to pay road tolls) I can't actually afford anything.

Oh dear.

[mr_e]

That's exactly the problem: for people like Sue, there'd be too big a delay between the increased charges and any improvement in public transport, even more so for people working part-time as well.

Might we see a renaissance of goods being transported by canal and rail? Even though no money is actually leaving the economy, I suspect it would either cause huge inflation, if employers increase wages to compensate, or a recession if they don't, and people's spending power is reduced.

I'll also admit, asides from the job issues, I would be quite glad to see the Trafford Centre disappear.

[johnriley1uk]

I think The Trafford Centre is a dreadful place and i go there when I have to. Lots of people like it though.

[Andy]

personally, I don't like the trafford centre. I find it a huge letdown every time I go and feel that a lot of things are at inflated prices. However, the MetroCentre in Newcastle doesn't do this to me. I feel it is because of the very linear design. With the Metro Centre it doesn't feel as if it is one straight line even though effectively it is. I always get lost in there which is fun in a strange way. Like I say, I can't explain it.

However, JohnRiley, you raise some extremely good points and I must say that this is the main reason for me not liking it. Me and Rowenna worked out that we would be ?20 worse off a week at least which equates to ?1000 a year which really does irritate me. When you consider it is a simple drive to Atherton Train Station and back twice a day then that really seriously irritates me.

[Mike]

I agree totally horrific place to shop like a temple to commercialism it has bad architectural taste, little class and even less variety. If we all shopped there then we might as well all dress the same and buy the same stuff. . . . :?

[Mike]

Today Manchester City Council will announce that road tax for driving into the city centre will be trialled at £5 per day. Apparently they asked some absolute numpties if this was a good idea and 44% thought it was right. . . . . What sort of moron wants to pay twice for a service.

I want them to get on the bus and then get charged £1.80 for the journey and a further £5 for the specific journey and see what they think about it.

I can not get over that stupid statistic. . . Who do we write to in Manchester to voice our dissatisfaction?

[johnriley1uk]

You're right, only a complete moron could possibly think that being charged twice for something was a Jolly Good Idea. My suspicion is that the people asked thought that somebody else apart from them paying twice was very helful to avoiding the dreaded climate change.

The way things are going I'm becoming more and more sceptical about climate change. I don't think we really know the first thing about the mechanisms involved, I don't think governments care and i do think it is just seen as a Wizard Wheeze to get more cash from us all. With our grovelling permission.

Don't worry, there will be plenty of Weasles amongst us waiting to report anyone who doesn't do their bit...

[Mike]

I believe climate change is happening however, why not incentives to have a low energy car rather than penalties. . . .

[Mike]

I saw an advert on a billboard saying 'Stop Moaning - Its only £5 per day!' I don't know if they are talking about it as a joke or if they are serious!

[BarcelonAl]

Apparently according to some council survey 57% of those questioned would be in favour of some form of congestion charging in Manchester in return for the £3 billion investment in public transport. God knows what idiots they surveyed to get that info, because I've not met one person who is in favour of it!

Here's the link to the MEN article: Conjestion charge survey

[Mike]

They interviewed a specific range of people. That is not working (housewifes / husbands, the unemployed), the bitter, the benefit cheats and the people who do not work in Manchester and only between the hours of 10-12am and 3-5pm!

Just goes to prove that you can not trust statistics and surveys!