In the News

[Mike]

Peppa Pig told to belt up. Litteraly car safety is now invading a reality tv show about a small, irritating pink pig.

LG creates a flexible but not foldable e-reader. They are hoping to create a newspaper type feeling when reading. Somehow I don't think that carrying a laminated piece of paper around is going to be particularly pleasant. However, I posted this because I mocked johnriley1uk for thinking this would happen - I am ashamed.

[johnriley1uk]

As Peppa Pig Series 1 and 2 are to be re-animated to include the seat belts, buy them now in anticipation of huge demand for the "rare original versions" - you may be able to make a fortune later.

Mike, I feel humbled by your shame!

[Mike]

I have the originals thanks to Millies Christmas pressies!

[stimpsonslostson]

At the risk of Al spontaneously combusting... this cannot be considered a desirable state of affairs for a British icon. Love them or loathe them, United ARE a huge asset to the country in global terms.

[Mike]

That is a shocking display of asset stripping. I don't support football but they are destroying one of the iconic football teams, it can't be good! We need a rich United supporters club to buy them out.

[stimpsonslostson]

We need a rich United supporters club to buy them out.

Thats more or less what I thought... We all KNOW that all United supporters live in London and eat lots of prawn sandwiches... surely a few of them could put their stockbroker bonuses in together and buy the club?

Disclaimer: These comments represent a humorous version of the authors thoughts on this deadly serious matter. If Mr A. Gordon actually DOES explode the author will accept NO responsibility. (Although I will make sure his 12string guitar is always polished, tuned and played regularly )

[BarcelonAl]

At the risk of Al spontaneously combusting... this cannot be considered a desirable state of affairs for a British icon. Love them or loathe them, United ARE a huge asset to the country in global terms.

It isn't a good state of affairs at all. It has however achieved one thing, suddenly even those supporters who said they didn't care about who owned us are now realising that they are harming the club every minute they continue to own it.

It's going to take one hell of a lot of money to get them out though, MUST certainly don't have 1.2billion pounds to buy them out!

Even the players and influential businessmen like Fred Done (United's licensed bookmaker) don't want anything to do with the bond scheme. Why should Rooney want to give you back money you've already paid him as wages so that you can pay yourself £20 million a year? I know footballers aren't the sharpest knives in the block, but even they aren't that stupid!

300+ supporters attended a meeting before the Burnley match at the weekend to try to work together to bring an end to their ownership and to publicise the growing resentment to their time as owners (for some of us it never went away...). Politicians are concerned, the press are interested, heck even the prawn sandwich brigade were witnessed chanting 'We want Glazer out' as a giant 'Love United Hate Glazer' banner was unfurled (and promptly aggressively confiscated...) from the Stretford End.

Malcolm and your band of gnome-ish offspring, the club and it's fans are bigger than you and now its time you began to believe it!

Wilson, if I do indeed spontaneously combust, the 12-string is all yours (complete with tempremental tuning!). If however during the course of the next few months I just am imprisoned for shoving my right foot up Malcolm, Joel, Avram, Darcie, Dopey, La-La, Tinky-Winky or Po Glazer's backside then it's just a loan!

[Andy]

300+ supporters attended a meeting before the Burnley match at the weekend to try to work together to bring an end to their ownership and to publicise the growing resentment to their time as owners (for some of us it never went away...). Politicians are concerned, the press are interested, heck even the prawn sandwich brigade were witnessed chanting 'We want Glazer out' as a giant 'Love United Hate Glazer' banner was unfurled (and promptly aggressively confiscated...) from the Stretford End.

Speaking from a fan who has wanted to remove a fat cockney ever since he came in charge it ain't gonna happen unless he wants to sell. The other problem is that they can name their price like CAshley has done at NUFC and it can be inflated. We literally have tried everything - ''cockney mafia out'' banners, marches, letters, Keegan's return, Shearer's second coming, Joe Kinnear or more affectionately known as ''The F-Kin-ear'' as we affectionately called him (*removes tongue from cheek), Malcolm MacDonald''s outbursts, death threats to him and his daughter apparently (don't agree with that one), there are banners at every ground, there are chants/volleys of concentrated verbal abuse virtually every ten minutes, we've boycotted his stores in the area and wherever we live, etc. You name it, we've done it or pondered doing it. We've even considered a Barcelona style share issue and the fat git rejected it.

I think the new Glazer idea is a joke and it ruins football tbh because that money should be reinvested in the club. I have nothing against owners withdrawing money for administrational purposes because they presumably had to put a large chunk of money up themselves and they ultimately run the business. However, when it is done to this degree then it is wrong.

Still, it could be worse Al, you could never have won anything in your lifetime bar an old second division championship, been relegated last year, signed nobody unless they are on a free or a loan deal, have a coach who isn't tactically up to it if you get back to the premiership, have to hail Ameobi as the new goalscoring messiah whilst your creative thrust in the centre of midfield is Smudge when you used to have Rob Lee - now those were the heady days of champagne football - and have your nearest and bitterest rivals in a higher division. Just a thought. The only one ray of hope we have had in the last three years was when he finally got rid of Dennis Wise because he's a little ****.

[stimpsonslostson]

Wilson, if I do indeed spontaneously combust, the 12-string is all yours

Al, have you seen the latest advances in toothpaste... apparently its mix your own!
Pot Ash, sulphur and charcoal. REALLY clears the sinuses apparently.

[BarcelonAl]

Speaking from a fan who has wanted to remove a fat cockney ever since he came in charge it ain't gonna happen unless he wants to sell. The other problem is that they can name their price like CAshley has done at NUFC and it can be inflated. We literally have tried everything - ''cockney mafia out'' banners, marches, letters, Keegan's return, Shearer's second coming, Joe Kinnear or more affectionately known as ''The F-Kin-ear'' as we affectionately called him (*removes tongue from cheek), Malcolm MacDonald''s outbursts, death threats to him and his daughter apparently (don't agree with that one), there are banners at every ground, there are chants/volleys of concentrated verbal abuse virtually every ten minutes, we've boycotted his stores in the area and wherever we live, etc. You name it, we've done it or pondered doing it. We've even considered a Barcelona style share issue and the fat git rejected it.

I think the new Glazer idea is a joke and it ruins football tbh because that money should be reinvested in the club. I have nothing against owners withdrawing money for administrational purposes because they presumably had to put a large chunk of money up themselves and they ultimately run the business. However, when it is done to this degree then it is wrong.

Andy, we were protesting against takeovers/owners when Mike Cashley was still dreaming of owning you! We got the Murdoch attempt stopped and nearly got the Glazers stopped.

The major problem that the Glazers will face in the coming months is if investors are put off buying the bonds, whether it is through their own intelligence (any investor will have to be wary of putting masses of cash into a potentially imploding business) or through not wanting to be associated with an ownership that is hated...which is where we as fans come in! Potentially driving the sale value of the club down so that the Glazers walk away with a financial loss!

Hopefully we can get some movement from within government that will force the FA to do a proper 'Fit and Proper Persons' review of potential owners of any football club, which may stop the likes of Icelandic banks or dodgy Sheiks taking over other clubs where they talk-the-talk, but don't walk-the-walk.

The idea that the Glazers spent a lot of their own cash to buy us is rubbish by the way. The majority of the money was raised through hedge-fund investment (debt in other words) which was then linked onto the club and not them. Therefore if the whole thing goes tits-up, the club is left oweing the debt, not them. The money they've 'paid' themselves in the last few years pretty much clears up what they put in, and if the figures are correct, by the end of next year they should be turning a profit, while the club itself disappears further into the black.

[Mike]

Phil what have you started?! Well reasoned response Al - was is from the MUST publicity department? Is there a MUST website?

[Andy]

Hmmm, if Tevez hadn't scored would the vehement have still been there? Only joking, football inspires us to be on the edge of our emotions for some reason.

Andy, we were protesting against takeovers/owners when Mike Cashley was still dreaming of owning you! We got the Murdoch attempt stopped and nearly got the Glazers stopped.

I was actually pointing out to you that it ain't just you that has problems like this, every club has its own story. If we asked Fez he'd probably have major issues against Gillette and Hicks. If we look at other clubs, Portsmouth fans are wondering if they will have a team to support next year, West Ham have been bought and the new owners have no money (again!) to invest in the club. It's rife at the moment.

Seriously mate, it ain't just CAshley we've hated - McKeag was horrendous, Shepherd and Dougie Hall were wankers, Sir John Hall even did a bond issue where he issued them to fans and charged them huge APR. A little known fact is that one. During my twenty-one years as a supporter of NUFC (you get less for life imprisonment!) it seems we've forever been scraping with the board.

The major problem that the Glazers will face in the coming months is if investors are put off buying the bonds, whether it is through their own intelligence (any investor will have to be wary of putting masses of cash into a potentially imploding business) or through not wanting to be associated with an ownership that is hated...which is where we as fans come in! Potentially driving the sale value of the club down so that the Glazers walk away with a financial loss!

Hopefully we can get some movement from within government that will force the FA to do a proper 'Fit and Proper Persons' review of potential owners of any football club, which may stop the likes of Icelandic banks or dodgy Sheiks taking over other clubs where they talk-the-talk, but don't walk-the-walk.

The idea that the Glazers spent a lot of their own cash to buy us is rubbish by the way. The majority of the money was raised through hedge-fund investment (debt in other words) which was then linked onto the club and not them. Therefore if the whole thing goes tits-up, the club is left oweing the debt, not them. The money they've 'paid' themselves in the last few years pretty much clears up what they put in, and if the figures are correct, by the end of next year they should be turning a profit, while the club itself disappears further into the black.

The FA's 'fit and proper persons' review is a joke imho, I cite Portsmouth as my prime example - one owner who doesn't actually have any money before selling it on to a random group who have never appeared and payments are always late - and also that ''Mr Sinatra'' at Man City who was just a sleazebag in terms of humanity.

I feel for you in the fact that, from the way I see it, you have a major problem if this share issue goes ahead because even if the club's value drops, they aren't going to be that bothered about selling if they begin to make money. As you say, they haven't actually spent anything on it. I do feel you have a better chance of being sold than us - I'll face facts on these matters and say you are a bigger global brand (I'd imagine you're behind Real Madrid at no2 whereas I think we were no18 last year) and you have a more prestigious name/history. But if the club's making money they will only want to sell at a massively inflated price and yours is far bigger than ours and most clubs - the 1billion+mark - and I can't see anybody buying it because they love it that much. Blimey, I never thought I state that I genuinely actually feel sorry for Man Utd!

BTW, if it is sold in the near future for a loss, who is going to saddle that loss? You seem to say it is the Glazers or do you mean that they will lose money on their comparatively small investment which was probably a fair few million? Also, If the bond issue is successful and the club is sold, will the Glazers walk away with all the profit? If so, then that is totally wrong.

[Mike]

United debts top £700million.

[BarcelonAl]

Well reasoned response Al - was is from the MUST publicity department? Is there a MUST website?

No it wasn't from the MUST publicity dept, but I've been involved with them for long enough that I guess my replies can come across as very much toeing the organisation line.

Oh and yes there is a site (http://www.joinmust.org) and there will be a campaign specific site soon-ish.

Hmmm, if Tevez hadn't scored would the vehement have still been there? Only joking, football inspires us to be on the edge of our emotions for some reason.

Hell yes, I've been on enough protest marches and spent enough of my free hours handing out leaflets to Norweigan/London/Suffolk/etc fans who didn't give a toss in the last 6 years to realise that I REALLY hate the glazers...and a certain percentage of our fans! I've been abused, ridiculed and frozen half to death (we like protesting in the winter apparently.... ), but yet I'll still be there for whatever protest we decide is necessary.

I was actually pointing out to you that it ain't just you that has problems like this, every club has its own story. If we asked Fez he'd probably have major issues against Gillette and Hicks. If we look at other clubs, Portsmouth fans are wondering if they will have a team to support next year, West Ham have been bought and the new owners have no money (again!) to invest in the club. It's rife at the moment.

The Premiership has made the whole league set-up a very 'them and us' situation. Greed is always the problem and you only have to look at the likes of yourselves and Leeds to see how easy it is for businessmen to drag once huge clubs to their knees in a very short time-scale.

The FA's 'fit and proper persons' review is a joke imho, I cite Portsmouth as my prime example - one owner who doesn't actually have any money before selling it on to a random group who have never appeared and payments are always late - and also that ''Mr Sinatra'' at Man City who was just a sleazebag in terms of humanity.

Exactly. Basically money or even the concept of available money is all that wins out with that bunch of money-grabbing muppets at the FA. Get rid of the lot of 'em and involve people like the Football Supporters Federation a say in who is allowed to run/own clubs.

I feel for you in the fact that, from the way I see it, you have a major problem if this share issue goes ahead because even if the club's value drops, they aren't going to be that bothered about selling if they begin to make money. As you say, they haven't actually spent anything on it. I do feel you have a better chance of being sold than us - I'll face facts on these matters and say you are a bigger global brand (I'd imagine you're behind Real Madrid at no2 whereas I think we were no18 last year) and you have a more prestigious name/history. But if the club's making money they will only want to sell at a massively inflated price and yours is far bigger than ours and most clubs - the 1billion+mark - and I can't see anybody buying it because they love it that much. Blimey, I never thought I state that I genuinely actually feel sorry for Man Utd!

It's not a share issue...yet. Bonds are basically other people buying debt for a lower interest rate than traditional loans are currently set at. Here's a decent explanation:

A bond is a debt security, similar to an I.O.U. When you purchase a bond, you are lending money to a government, municipality, corporation, federal agency or other entity known as an issuer. In return for that money, the issuer provides you with a bond in which it promises to pay a specified rate of interest during the life of the bond and to repay the face value of the bond (the principal) when it matures, or comes due.

BTW, if it is sold in the near future for a loss, who is going to saddle that loss? You seem to say it is the Glazers or do you mean that they will lose money on their comparatively small investment which was probably a fair few million? Also, If the bond issue is successful and the club is sold, will the Glazers walk away with all the profit? If so, then that is totally wrong.

The club saddles the majority of the loss. The glazers re-financed the deal to leverage (hate that word) the majority of the debt onto the club itself. If the glazers default on their repayments then the banks get to appoint people to the board of directors. Given the glazers are potentially looking at selling and re-leasing at the very least our training ground (even possibly Old Trafford), then the situation must be serious.

If they sell then the glazers will get more cash than the club I expect...gonna take one huge investment to sort this one out!

Besides, at the moment, if the bond issue goes through then the glazers could possibly take £130 million out of the club next year! Which will definitely see them back in the black...and United deeper in the red than ever before. Not exactly a great situation to be in...

[mr_e]

To play devil's advocate a little: a lot of the top-flight football clubs have been become extremely big, profitable organisations, issuing shares just as any normal business would. Should we then be surprised if they are treated as purely financial concerns by any new owners?

In reality: it would suck if a team that is a national treasure (of sorts) is crippled by the kind of legal-yet-dubious business dealings that football's mostly avoided so far. Or that's not been this blatant at least.