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Oh dear - how embarrassing to be knocked out of the qualifying stages of Euro 2008. Embarrassing for the players and worthy of a job loss for the manager. Not unsurprising given the previous record in this qualifying section.

Lets not just blame McClaren (though his dull, uninspiring tactics and odd squad choices were ultimately to blame) for this embarrassing loss and lack of qualification.

Throughout the campaign there have been several very highly paid, very highly skilled footballers looking like they didn't give a stuff about playing for their country. If you haven't got the pride in the shirt, then there are plenty others who have the desire to play that should get it instead.

i agree with paul parker who prior to the game said maybe it would be good for english football in the long run for us not to qualify so fundamental problems with the team could be looked at. but who do we now turn to for the solution? aladice was my choice back before mcclaren was hoisted in but he hasn't exactly set newcastle on fire - is it time to call graham taylor and say all is forgiven?!?

As a slightly more economy-based take on it all, seeing as I didn't watch the match, people were estimating the cost to the economy to be up to £2bn. Plus people get all sulky and their productivity lowers at work, which I'm not sure was factored in.

I do agree with Al though: it's all too easy for the players to sit back and blame the manager, but it's ultimately the players who are being paid ridiculous sums of money, which you'd think would provide enough motivation. However, human nature being as it is, apparently not.

Too much comfort does not breed motivation - in fact it makes people less motivated and more opinionated.

Lets be honest being England manger is actually a good deal. Lets take a look at the facts

You convince the FA that you are actually very damned good and they MUST take you on for a 3-5 year deal at a couple of mill a year. You then do a shit job and make them fire you will a big compensation pay off of maybe a couple more million. You can the go and get another job if you can be bothered. . . . . :D

Well put Mike. Just for your information, McClaren is currently recovering from being a useless manager in his holiday home in Barbados, trying to work out how to spend his 2 million pound severance fee...I kid ye not!

If they're going to have stupid amounts of severance pay, they may as well put a performance clause in the contract as well. Crap performance = no severance pay.

I feel now that England must go for a foreign manager. This is because

a) there are no decent English managers out there who have won enough and could command the respect of the players.
b) there are hardly any English managers bare Allardyce (which is shocking).
c) we should have gone for Big Phil Scolari in the first place.

Mclaren is and always will be a PR man. He speaks bollocks fluently. He knows the press men. He is as much a former England manager as he is a failed PR stunt after Sven and his extra hours with Faria under the desk.... Anyone with any knowledge would not have gambled on a rookie in a decisive match.

proposed names, both foreign and homgrown, are falling over themselves to get away from any connection to the england job - it has become something of a poison chalice. even sven who lets face it was a good manager was constantly given flak by the press and could never seem to do anything right as far as they were concerned. who would want to land a job where ultimately after no matter how many good results at the helm you will either be fired or asked to leave? it is not a job for life...on which note is bobby robson dead yet? he's got nothing to lose except more of his marbles.

i agree with you Fez, it has become a poisoned chalice. The reason for this is simple, we have illusions of grandeur when it comes to our team. We are not that good. Quarter Finals at best for me because I don't think that we are really anywhere near the top 10 at the moment (or have been for the last 10/20 years)

Don't we just need to admit that England are not actually a very good team (individual capabilities aside). the press seem to be living in a world where england are great and are simply badly-managed or playing in the wrong formation. i'm sorry. I agree with Andy: we're not that good, and haven't been for a long time. whatever we have achieved since italia 90 has been 'by the skin of your teeth' stuff anyway. we complain about getting knocked out in shoot outs. but that's as "could-have-gone-one-way-or-the-other" as David Beckham in the last minute against Greece a few years ago, surely? we should not be reliant upon the results of other games in our qualifiying group. a better team would take their fate in their own hands and would have larger margins for error (not that they'd need them). haven't we dipped out of the higher rankings now as well, so we'll have a more protracted qualification campaign for World Cup 2010, along with the other minnows like Scotland.

I say again: we're not that good, and haven't been for a long time.

Oh, but McLaren was still a total plank.

Claire wrote:whatever we have achieved since italia 90

Even though we reached the semi-final of Italia 90 it was by the skin of our teeth let us not forget. We scraped past Belgium with a 'wonder goal' which was basically a hit and hope. In that match we were totally out played. Against Cameroon we were dodgy to say the least and our equalising penalty on that occassion was as much of a joke as the one on Wednesday. The tournament will always remain fond in my heart - I was 9, in love totally with football, etc. But we were lucky even then.

Croatia again for the WC 2010 qualifications! I bet they are looking forward to that. . .