Road Congestions Charges

[Mike]

I think that the congestion charge does not apply in the same manner to locals driving in their area. There is the problem though of having to drive out of your small area to get to the supermarket that could be a total pain.

[Mike]

Manchester has spent £10million on bidding for the congestion charges, is going to spend an additional £3million on advertising and consultation prior to the implementation. What a waste, this £10million could have bought some new track for the Metrolink, widened some roads or improved junctions.

PS, there is a vote on the website that asks in the Congestion Charge is worth the £3bn investment into public trasnsport. I would say no because the £3bn will be repaid by the congestion charge very quickly, then the prices would remain and increase and for what good cause? None. Remember income tax was just to pay for the Nepolionic Wars. . . .

[John Knight]

Hybrid cars are really cool, Emma at work has just bought a honda one. The systems on the car look really great, it shows you were the power for the drive is coming from at each speed. How much energy is being collected by the batteries etc. Also when you are stopped at lights the car is totally silent. Really freaky!

Hybrid cars are a nice Idea except for a few things they never tell you in the literature.

1. The metals used in the batteries are highly toxic.
2. The metals are mined in candada, The mine has a 10 mile deadzone around it due to the high levels of pollution.
3. They are then sent halfway around the world to be prepared to be used in the batteries, and then sent even further to the factory where the batteries are made.
4. The batteries are then shipped to the manurfacturer who puts them in the car in japan and ships the finished car halfway around the world to the unfortunate customer(now thats a carbon footprint).
5.There is some doubt wether the supposed CO2 savings over the life of the car actually re-coup the addition CO2 input over and above normal car production.

If thats not reason enough..


6. They are not as efficient as you might like to think. I recently saw a test on top gear where they set a prius off round the track at full tilt and followed it in a BMW M3 at the same speed. Now you'd think the 4.5litre v10 beamer would use more petrol. but you'd be wrong. I would imagine this has something to do with the weight of all the batteries you are lugging around and the inherent loss's due to the complexity of the drive system but don't mind being corrected.


If your'e out in your Pious (yes I missed the letter out on purpose) trying and failing to have fun on an A road and you see me coming to overtake you in my little normal car grinning from ear to ear, it's partly because it cost me a fraction of the cost of a hybrid, partly because I am getting close to 40mpg but mainly because I'm having an awfull lot more fun than you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PP6fe6i1vaY

[Mike]

To add you your argument I have recently heard that you have to travel over 50,000 miles before you have paid off the 'energy investment' to create the car. I had not heard about the mine in Canada though, that is shocking!

[mr_e]

I'll have to try and find some similar calculations for hydrogen-powered cars along those lines. It nicely highlights how difficult it is to make seemingly easy environment-based decisions on what products to buy.

The Prius only sucked so badly compared to the BMW because it was being flogged at its maximum speed, whilst the BMW was cruising well below its full power output. At lower speeds it probably has the edge. The point that Mr. Clarkson was making was that if you flog your car, accelerating and braking sharply, you'll get shite fuel economy no matter what you're driving.

[John Knight]

I think that the congestion charge does not apply in the same manner to locals driving in their area. There is the problem though of having to drive out of your small area to get to the supermarket that could be a total pain.

Only if you go to the shops in the direction of charging during charging hours. I don't think the con charge applies at weekends and I am to busy commuting into town at rush hour to go to the shops.

My only problem with the whole concept of the congestion charging in manchester is the business of the inner and outer charging rings. why not just have one charging ring around the city centre only. Having seen some of the "top secret" plans that the TIF fund would pay for I have to support the con charge because the potential benefits to our city far outweigh the pain.

For example how cool would pedestrian priority and trees on deansgate or oxford road be?


Here's a good question for you. Has anybody noticed its the councils (stockport,trafford,bury) who already have great transport links to the city centre who are against the charging? Well cheers for that peeps.

[Lizzie]

Here's a good question for you. Has anybody noticed its the councils (stockport,trafford,bury) who already have great transport links to the city centre who are against the charging? Well cheers for that peeps.

Especially weird seeing as places like stockport,trafford and bury are going to become increasingly desirable places for businesses and employees to work based on the fact that there will be no congestion charge in these areas !! I would have thought it would be economically very good for these boroughs.

[johnriley1uk]

For example how cool would pedestrian priority and trees on deansgate or oxford road be?

Up to a point maybe, but please spare a thought for the many many people to whom the congestion charge may mean severe financial outlay and in some cases even being unable to continue following their line of work. There are many unkown effects, and I'm sure there are many that I'm not aware of.

What I do think is that pedestrianisation is all very well but there may be few or no places of business to walk to. I understand that there is one German city where they have removed all road signs and demarcations between people and traffic and the result has been very careful and courteous behaviour, no accidents at all and a vast reduction in costs of replacing damaged infrastructure (road signs and such).

Whilst recognising that there are many points of view equally valid, personally I prefer my trees to be in the woodlands and forests and my cities to be functional areas with total and easy accesss for all.

[John Knight]

Since the completion of the inner ring road there is little or no excuse for traffic to use deansgate. I pass time on my daily walk from manchester victoria to knott mill by racing cars up deansgate. Usual I got them beat all the way up to the Great Northern and then they get some clear road and win.

My understanding of the proposals for deansgate is that cars will be able enter the centre on a series of roads that loop in from the inner relief road and then loop back out to it forcing thru traffic onto the relief road. The plan is to intially close deansgate completely in front of the cathederal to create linkages to salford across the listed central railway station bridges and give the cathedral its own space. later the rest will be predominantly pedestrian with bus and cylce lanes. It is a hugely important step for manchester. Considering it's not really difficult to park within 10 minutes walk of anywhere in the city centre I personally would like to see much more extensive pedestrianisation. They are also looking at deansgate and cross st as potential routes for a second city crossing and bringing back to use the remaing viaduct ruinning thru castlefield to use for another 2 tram lines.

[Mike]

The tram lines and railway lines are very good for people who work in the city. I can imagine that it is becoming more and more difficult for those who have to visit the city for appointments and then leave again. It must be tricky to get around the city and also park in a convenient location to move their files etc around with them.

[stimpsonslostson]

can I propose a lanes system for the pedestrianised zones?
Just like a motorway divide the sides of the street into thirds.
The middle of the street for people who are actually trying to get somewhere. NO DAWDLING (or buggies, sorry).
Second lane- Slower walkers, quick pushchairs etc and mild windowshopping.
Inside lane- Vacuous zombies staring into every shop window, never looking where they are going.

Drives me bonkers every time I go down market street!

On a more serious note, the pedestrianisation of the city centre will have to be handled with great care. I can't see Oxford Road happening, but Deansgate maybe...

[BarcelonAl]

Pedestrian Lane system, Seconded.

Can we also ban large groups of (mainly teenagers) from walking side-by-side down the middle of any of the lanes?

[John Knight]

While we are dividing the pedestrians up into neat lanes I would like to propose a special "Wet Weather Lane" reserved soley for short women who carry their umbrella's at full size humans eye level. the number of times I have only avoided massive occular trauma because I wear glasses is quite frightening.

[johnriley1uk]

Well if it happens like this then to get to St John Street (short drive in, park outside premises, half an hour later gone) it looks like a huge detour and ten minutes or more each way lugging goodness knows what. It turns a quick call in the city into a marathon nightmare...

[John Knight]

Surely you would just enter town up Quay St or Liverpool Road, and if you didn't fancy the 3 minute walk from the selection of multistorey carparks you would have to drive past you then would enter St john street from the byrom street end. All that would happen to is that St john St would be a cul-de-sac. A little walking never hurt anybody unless your in one of the Bachman Books.